i love this and i love you and thank you for sharing as always! (for the people who may be reading what i'm writing that don't already engage with sophie's work on a regular basis, WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?)
some specific nuggets that leapt out to me (or leapt INTO me, into the heart part of me):
"Human beings deserve kindness and unconditional positive regard, until they’ve individually violated trust. (And honestly, I think they deserve it even after that.)"
and
"...our mouths are better because of the teeth-brushing; and our souls are better because of the children."
beautiful concepts beautifully expressed, thank you again and always and happy january, friend!
Oh man. We need a phrase to describe when you stop what you're doing - in my case, drying my hair, an activity that takes forever - to go comment on a newsletter you just read. A "pause the pod" for the written word.
I appreciated the sentiment of the IG post at the time, though I definitely fell into the childfree irked camp. So many parents start ignoring their friends/talking only about their children and/or stop inviting their childfree friends to things because they "assume they don't want to hang out with kids." This is a hella two way street, but no one is responsible for representing both sides of everything, and I appreciated your perspective.
But let's go back to this: "It is bonkers to me that it is socially acceptable to say that you just don’t like all children."
Hooboy, the inhale I inhaled. If I had my Garmin on, I know it would've yelled at me to chill the fuck out.
I should add the necessary caveats before diving in. This weekend, I am writing letters to friends 3- and 6-year-old kiddos. I pretend they come from Maggie Modzelewski, Headmistress of the Cathedral of Learning Witchcraft and Wizardry. They are delivered by two stuffies I bought them when we toured the Cathedral of Learning together. I have holiday presents on my table for three other significant children in my life, "the boys," as I call them, the sons of two dear friends who are close to each other, close in age and luckily, close to me. I love these children.
But listen: I don't like children. I like and love and adore some individuals. I like the concept of them, the furthering of humanity, the many good things you raise. But I have never known how to hang out with them, even when I was one. (My kindergarten teacher made me a "room mother" because I was better at organizing than engaging.) I am bad at play. It drives me up a wall that I can't understand what they're saying.
There's a line in an essay I wrote about abortion where I'm remembering talking about finding out I was pregnant. "What am I going to do, have Whiskey watch the baby while I work like he’s Nana from Peter Fucking Pan? Also. I hate children."
Whiskey was my dog, and he was the only childcare I would've had available. But more importantly, it felt important to acknowledge that I am generally extremely unhappy spending more than 90 minutes with a child. A mother in my writing group commented, "You cannot mean this."
She's right. I don't hate children. But in a moment when I was deciding whether or not I wanted to have one, that's absolutely a flippant thing I would've said, and I feel zero shame about it.
Similarly, not liking children is a quick shorthand for the fact that, with individual and time-limited exceptions, I don't especially enjoy their company. I am happy to make the time and form relationships with my friends' kiddos. This, as you say, is part of life. But I cannot understand why there should be any more shame around generally not enjoying hanging around kids than not enjoying hanging around dogs. Dogs are great! They're soft and sweet and pure joy and love and light. Do I understand when someone doesn't want to hang out with my dog? No. But I'm not going to try to suggest it's bonkers, and would absolutely love it if people who dig spending time with teacup humans could extend the same courtesy.
I laughed out loud when you wrote that "It drives me up a wall that I can't understand what they're saying." I'm just picturing the amount of times I've stared at a three-year-old who has said.... something. And then I say, "Oh wow, yes, totally." When really I mean, "What the actual fuck just came out of your mouth."
Thank you for this comment, Maggie. I appreciate the nuance with which you considered my words, and I'm sorry I made you inhale so profoundly! Though I get it. I have been inhaling a lot like that lately, to plenty of well-meaning people writing about polyamory on the internet. THERE ARE SHADES OF GRAY, FOLKS! This is part of what you're saying, and you're right.
I do take issue with this: "I cannot understand why there should be any more shame around generally not enjoying hanging around kids than not enjoying hanging around dogs." Sorry, but I THINK IT IS BONKERS THAT ANYONE WOULD SAY THAT THEY DISLIKE ALL DOGS! Maybe even MORE bonkers than the kids thing!? Because, as April Ludgate puts it in Parks & Rec, "[Dogs] should be rewarded for not being people."
Boy, two comments in two posts, I feel like a bit of a jerk. However, this was the nudge I finally took as, you know, the broke whatever to ante up to paid because I truly have been meaning to. This is going to be a dumb, long comment and for that I'm sorry, however I was ruminating around the kitchen on the first bulk and your call for "change my mind in comments."
I don't think I'm going to change your mind, and honestly, that is good because people should value, protect, and care for children. That is of course true.
However, this is not the first time I have encountered I suppose what you would call "righteous" (I did not find it so) declarations from parents about their furor when they encounter "people who hate children". I liked the instragram post, for the record, and shared it with my parent-pals, even though yes, there were parts of it I found myself resistant to. I have a dear, dear, my oldest friend who seems to bring this up specifically *with me* each time we rarely see each other IRL. I say this because I probably am bringing some baggage to it. I learned once to never offer my own thoughts on it, because it hurt too much to deal with the vehemence, and it seems as though I am a stand in for the "I hate children" folks (which, to her, are queer childless people she apparently knows, and the nature of queer identity seems to agitate her even more.) I dislike this conversation, but there is an invitation here, in this space, for thoughts, so here goes.
I don't know these internet commenters and I'm not going to wade in to look at them. I do have to push back, a little though, at the notion of the Vast Hating Children conspiracy AND, also, to perhaps accept whatever "children are not for me" notions they may have.... in order to allow space for everyone to have the best outcome they can (including PROTECTING one's children).
I profess I have no idea the ins and outs over my child ambivalence, thus I am maybe speaking for some of these people who simply like to say these things because they'd like to stop being hectored about not having children or enjoying a "child-free" life, whatever the hell that is. I'm child free and I would not say I find my life exceptionally enjoyable because of that? I'm broke: there is no world in which many parts of my life would ever sustain having a child, which is part of the reason I accepted what would be my lot w/r/t to normative parenting. They are obnoxious, probably, yes. I would say I know a handful of folks who have expressed distaste for children. I don't especially engage with it because it has never really become something to engage with after someone flippantly goes, "ugh, kids."
So is expressing dislike of children the same as a "hate" for children? Whose children are we talking about here? I must admit, I find a lot of dissonance when I encounter those who condemn "hate for children" and then, on the other hand, seem at ease criticizing other children who may have maladaptive behaviors (note: I am speaking in code for when white liberal parents shittalking underserved POC children who may live in their neighborhood or share their spaces), or, to me, worse, being at best judgmental and at worst unkind about adolescents (again, I am often talking about white liberal parents dog whistling about POC youth). When we say, it is abhorrent for someone to express "hating children" (again, I have not encountered "I Hate Children", but more of complaining about them), I want to know whose children are we talking about? I have the utmost respect for all the work you have done with youth and so to be clear, I am one hundred percent not talking about you, Sophie. Perhaps you have encountered some of the people I am talking about, though.
To run with that, can we be sure those who like to be snide/edgy/whatever about their aversion to children "hate children"? If we are doing the work of liberation for the most vulnerable, say, we are trying to support mutual aid food access networks in our neighborhood (knowing children are the ones who go hungry), or better pedestrian infrastructure because we know children and the elderly are in actuality the most vulnerable users of the road and those killed, or if we are trying to provide money to do anything in the face of Palestinian genocide (knowing that at one time HALF of Gaza was comprised of *literal children*), one might argue we are trying to love and protect children. To follow that thread, perhaps the people in our lives upholding Zionism or refusing to condemn ethnic cleansing actually hate children. I cannot say.
I suppose I just dislike this rhetoric because it leaves no room for ambiguity. To be certain: the phrase "I Hate Children" is pretty unambiguous, and obnoxious. Yet maybe there is something to letting that go and also.... taking it at face value. I think there are many people in this world who are not sociopaths or genuinely evil, however I KNOW there are people in this world who for whatever reason are perhaps not the best people to be around children. Hell, people who are prickly, unkind, blunt, etc. are not really enjoyable to be around as adults! And there may be MANY reasons people have aversion to children, especially, and I urge you gently to consider this: the fact that they absolutely DID NOT HAVE healthy, good, loving childhoods, and would like to stay as far away from "childhood" as they can. Is that something to condemn? I am well aware some of my strange feelings about friends with kids comes from that. I am uninterested in exploring this in a comments section, etc., but I can say with one hundred percent certainty: one of my parents has expressed and objectively was Not Meant For Small Children. At best, as an adult, I can see this person has mellowed and also DOES care for children (i.e. provides migrant services, donates money, does The Work). And at worst, I am well aware my childhood was neglectful and there are many moments I desperately wished that parent was not the one to care for me, because of the harm it caused. I was lucky: there were People In My Life who cared for children, but most of them were not Adults I Knew until I was a teenager (and honestly, that was probably better!) Most of these people were also underpaid, and often POC. They were caretakers.
There are many reasons people may bristle or dislike children, and I would maybe argue that some of them dislike being around children... when their parents are around. I could name myriad reasons for this: cultural differences that I believe need not be upheld nor denigrated, something that triggers them based on their past, or simply because quite honestly, some parents are exhausting to be around. I generally enjoy kids a lot more on their own. AND ALSO: I will never, ever, even if asked at knifepoint give or share "advice" or thoughts about parenting with a parent. Never. I don't have them (children), I would not know how to reflect some of the types of parenting I see now, etc. and frankly the proliferation of social media and "takes" on parenting, especially in what I view as white, progressive circles seems to do a lot of damage to my parent friends! It is awful to watch.
I suppose maybe it is just better for parents of SPECIFIC children to maybe just not have them be around people who share out loud their distaste for children. I do not think these people are monsters, just like I found myself deeply saddened by your statement on polyamorous folks saying it is "Exactly Like Having Children." Large statements about rejecting heteronormative structures of relationships has been why I stopped trying to identify as Polyamorous, and it is intensely lonely to be non-monogamous and want to get needs or desires met when folks under the Poly umbrella dictate their needs (i.e. accepting a polycule when frankly, I really am at capacity and I'm going to take time to get to know ANYONE) and any of the work I have done to meet in the middle is moot. I know you probably did not mean it that way, and I really loved your poly memoir, and enjoy much of your writing on it. Still, that was a lot to take in.
Perhaps it is simply better to leave the people who dislike children away from your "small children" which I think is what these people are talking about. I don't know. I can tell you I love working with adolescents and teenagers - I'm better at it, and have received somewhat pointed feedback in that I am not able to "do small children" as well, which hurts. I think adolescents and teenagers deserve love and care from adults too, and I'm not sure where that fits in here, other than I often find myself wanting to ask my friend, "Is it not enough for those of us doing SOME of this work for young people? What is enough?"
Finally, I just want to say: sometimes some of this comes down to what I DO believe should be the delineation between spaces. If I am in a dark bar at 8 PM trying to read a book, where there is no food that would remotely be enjoyable to a small child, I am going to bristle when a parent lets their six year old climb up onto a barstool to get a bartender's attention. I do not hate the children. I am WILDLY judgmental of those parents, though. Who the hell would want to be a kid at a fucking bar? God knows I'd rather be in bed or having someone read a book to me.
Anyway, this has been disjointed, but I felt obligated, and would like to close with: I appreciate your writing so much and these thoughts, and here is what I have to say. Also people on the internet are the worst and perhaps it would be best if we left them be. Probably I will not be responding to a massive comment thread, but happy to take offline. Saludos.
CARMEN! This is just such an amazing and thoughtful comment, full of exactly the nuance that I was hoping to read. I'm so impressed with the way you're thinking about this, the care you're taking, and the thought you've put into this gorgeous response. What a gift it is. This in particular is so valuable and should have been in my initial post:
"So is expressing dislike of children the same as a "hate" for children? Whose children are we talking about here? I must admit, I find a lot of dissonance when I encounter those who condemn "hate for children" and then, on the other hand, seem at ease criticizing other children who may have maladaptive behaviors (note: I am speaking in code for when white liberal parents shittalking underserved POC children who may live in their neighborhood or share their spaces), or, to me, worse, being at best judgmental and at worst unkind about adolescents (again, I am often talking about white liberal parents dog whistling about POC youth). When we say, it is abhorrent for someone to express "hating children" (again, I have not encountered "I Hate Children", but more of complaining about them), I want to know whose children are we talking about?"
This REALLY matters and feels like it's so often left out of the discussion. Mia Birdsong recently posted on Instagram a poem that began the lines "I No Longer Care If You're Good/ to your children. Show me / how you care / for other people's children." (The post is by Fara Tucker.) I thought that was such an interesting sentiment.
Thank you so much for all your thoughts here, and how you help to delineate these ideas. I feel really grateful for you and what you've added to this conversation. Thank you.
I don’t really care if you like kids or not but I do wish more people considered how actively dehumanizing public statements of hating children are considering how utterly helpless kids are.
This is an important topic that I agree with wholeheartedly. Thank you for writing about it!
There’s people who love kids, people who hate kids ... and people in between. I’m one of those in between people. Your insta post encouraged me to explore a concept I hadn’t thought of before.. that if I’m not totally averse to it, I should consider spending more time with my friend’s kids! I kinda didn’t know that was a thing.
Now, some people are very adamant about having their dislike of children heard. I have a few friends like that. I have ALWAYS felt awkward around kids, so I get not knowing what to do/say, but I bristle when witnessing how explosive some people can be about hating children. It feels like punching down, and more to do with that particular person than children in general.
There’s an angle in pedophobia (disdain/dislike/hatred/fear of children) that says something about our culture’s shadow. We are all children. So are we hating on ourselves?
I enjoyed hearing about the Slutty Baby Philosophy - and the way you laid out all of the perks makes it sound very attractive. But I also want to validate your (and anyone else who behaves like this) approach of following your own intuition on when to have other people hold the baby versus you. Even if it is "better" in the long-run, it's also important that you feel good and safe about who's holding your baby/when, and when you have a new baby it's not an easy time to be living a set philosophy that might not come naturally to you versus acting on instinct. So I think it's a great approach if it feels good, but I did usually crave the connection with my babies that comes from soothing them when they were upset (not always though!). I definitely missed having other people hold a baby for me when I had that one during the pandemic and nobody was touching each other. That was rough.
The concept about people hating/not liking kids is interesting to me too. I literally never hear people say that... I hear people say they get overwhelmed with them, or don't know how to interact with them. But I also don't meet tons of new people regularly or write a newsletter inviting that, so maybe I'd find more people that didn't like kids if I did.
But I think it kind of doesn't matter if some people hate kids (as long as they're not acting on this hate beyond trying to avoid them). There's lots of different kinds of people in this world that like a lot of different things. But that doesn't mean we don't sometimes interact with or deal with the things/people that aren't our favorite. And if all of a sudden they're a non-negotiable add-on to a good friend, it's usually very possible to find ways to still spend time with the friend without the add-on (whether that's a hobby, lifestyle, spouse/partner, or a kid). I like kids just fine, but still work hard to find time with my friends (who also have kids) without any of our kids there - because when we all hang out with kids (which we also do), it's not usually much like hanging out with my friends at all. It's like being near my friends while we all make sure our kids don't accidentally kill themselves (kids are always doing this and it's very stressful and it's reasons like this why I understand that some people just don't want to be near all that!).
And so I don't see what got people so riled up with your post (other than people love getting mad on the internet) - you offered some good options for hanging out without kids, so as long as it's not interpreted as a demand that people do all of the options, it seems pretty benign. I would also add maybe for friends without kids to have friends with kids over for an evening thing, so the no-kids friend doesn't have to go anywhere. Because maybe the list felt just a tiny bit too focused on accommodating people with kids, although I realize the goal was just to make spending time together as feasible as possible. And some of that might also depend on the age of kids - when my kids were under 2, I was much more tired and going somewhere usually sounded absurd. But now I'm not *as* tired and if we do hang out at my house in the evening, there's a high probability that my kids are going to try to crash the party and ultimately go to bed super late, so maybe I should just go to my childless friends' house anyway and have a nice peaceful evening and celebrate their home and life path with them.
I always appreciate your thoughts on this stuff (and all stuff), Colleen. Thank you for offering this up to the general public! I love this especially: "There's lots of different kinds of people in this world that like a lot of different things. But that doesn't mean we don't sometimes interact with or deal with the things/people that aren't our favorite."
Oh boy, it is so interesting reading everyone’s thoughts this! I really appreciate both the original Instagram post And this newsletter about it And people’s responses to this newsletter! Here are some of my loose thoughts in no particular order:
It’s a shame that Instagram comments are so often finding the least generous interpretation of what someone is saying and then arguing from there. It feels like some sort of constructive debate exercise could baked into the app to combat this but that’s not really what social media is about.
I really feel like if our society in general was less emphatic about the nuclear family and having kids in general people would be less vehement about not liking kids. It strikes me that this is a sentiment I’ve heard almost entirely from women and I think it’s often in reaction to a presumption that they should love children and be instantly good with them. I hope as a society we are slowly getting better about planning women under this type of pressure.
I pride myself as being a good friend and had a partner who made it a priority for me to get baby-free time with my friends. Even so, The first year of my (now 1.5 year old) baby’s life when my friends and I got together was not good. My brain just felt like empty static. I didn’t want to be a cliché who only could talk about their kid but I didn’t have any anecdotes or jokes or ideas, I hadn’t listened to and music or seen any films. It was a very isolating combination of depression, anxiety and obliteration of identity and even though now I feel so much more myself I still would never be able to explain that feeling to my group of friends without kids. I was just showing up those 4 or 5 times to be a placeholder to maintain those friendships for a future self. But it felt as bad as it did good some of the time. That is in no way the fault of my friends, it’s just a hard true thing.
One thing I would recommend most of all for friendships regardless of child status is to live in proximity. It is such a game changer to just be living lives physically close by. One friend would ride her bike right past my house frequently and I would see her while taking by baby out for a walk in the awful early evening panic hour. Her just stopping to chat for 5 minutes or share a slice of watermelon on the stoop would absolutely make my day. Make your neighbours your friends, yes. But if you can make your friends your neighbours it will enrich your life infinitely.
WOW, this is just a treasure trove of amazing thoughts. I relate so strongly to your experience of the first 1.5 years of your kid's life (I was like, "Wait... did I write this?!"), and I love the line "to be a placeholder to maintain those friendships for a future self." Beautiful, sad, true. Well put.
I'm pulling this whole graph out because I hadn't thought about this with such clarity, and I love the way you put this: "I really feel like if our society in general was less emphatic about the nuclear family and having kids in general people would be less vehement about not liking kids. It strikes me that this is a sentiment I’ve heard almost entirely from women and I think it’s often in reaction to a presumption that they should love children and be instantly good with them. I hope as a society we are slowly getting better about planning women under this type of pressure."
THANK YOU SO MUCH for this. It made a difference in my life.
I essentially stopped parenting my child due to estrangement when he was 12 1/2 and it made me realize how much of my life was centered around my kid, around being a parent. (I'm quoted in a book about middle-age regarding this topic if anyone wants the title.) I occasionally share with my kid what i'm up to and he is envious of my adventures, but I wouldn't be having these adventures if he was still living with me. I think I might have chosen child-free life, or approached parenting with more intentional, if I hadn't been socialized to WANT motherhood, to be told that it's this divine experience, only to be totally beat down by it. Highly suggest Why Have Kids by Jessica Valenti
This is a very timely newsletter! I was just ranting about a friend of mine who wants to have a kid with a new partner and what a horrible idea I think it is.
First I will say I’m so glad to hear you talk about this! This comic softened me a little bit when I first read it but I was also filled with thoughts and feelings.
I am also not anti-child. They’re not really my thing, but I make exceptions for smiling at them on public transit and of course for the children of my friends. A lot of anti-children (not all) were probably disliked as a child. I fall into that camp; I was loved when I was sweet and quiet and wore cute hats and treated repulsively when I was y’know…. a “kid”.
I think people should put more thought into having kids. I don’t think “Because it could be a fulfilling thing for me” is a good enough reason. I think if we practiced community and collective living/different kinds of family structures, more people would be able to experience family, connection, support and community and might not even want to have kids as much? Or at least, not for the sake of trying to heal themselves.
That’s sort of a tangent and not totally what you’re writing about. But I think it’s connected at least.
It reminds me of how many children are suffering in the foster care system. I realize adopting is actually incredibly inaccessible— but I find it suspicious that people who are unable to have their own children would rather spend hundreds to thousands on having one biologically rather than even just… become a foster parent themselves? If it was a life with a child in it that they wanted… there are many of them already on this earth who will grow up neglected and abused. If it’s the biological urge to reproduce, then again I think we are at the point where we should be considering that very seriously before having a kid.
It reminds me of how in developing countries struggling with over population, the best way to curb that issue is to ensure women and girls have access to education. Over here the problem I think is more fostering meaningful connections and communities.
But also…. emotional education, mental health care. It would work well for everyone— people who want kids, people who don’t, people who can’t.
I realize that’s probably never going to happen though and I think in some ways it’s because it’s… simpler… to have your own tiny nuclear family and try and get your needs met within that ancient structure and that is what irks me most of all because it is so obviously failing us as a society.
Wow. What an amazing comment. Thank you so much for it. This especially: "I think people should put more thought into having kids. I don’t think “Because it could be a fulfilling thing for me” is a good enough reason. I think if we practiced community and collective living/different kinds of family structures, more people would be able to experience family, connection, support and community and might not even want to have kids as much? Or at least, not for the sake of trying to heal themselves." I feel like I might want to quote you on this in my book, and I couldn't agree with you more about it. You've put amazing words to some difficult topics! Thank you, thank you.
"I think people should put more thought into having kids."
^This made me laugh (at myself) because I realized that I put literally zero thoughts into having kids for my entire life until I was like 27 and then my body/brain was like HAVE A BABY RIGHT THIS SECOND!! The same thing happened when I was like 20, but that time it was puppies.
I didn't really even like kids that much - I definitely didn't dislike them. I remember my mom talking about having kids, saying, "I just felt like life was going to be pretty boring if it was just about me all the time." When I asked if she liked kids, she said, "I liked *my* kids."
Anyway, these are just random thoughts that came up reading your comment, and probably prove your point more than anything else. But interesting for me to reflect on the concept of putting more thought into having kids. I put very little thought into things ahead of time, I think they just build up in my subconscious or something, and then all of a sudden I make (seemingly) impulsive decisions. Like have a baby. Makes me curious what the breakdown is of people who thoughtfully weigh pros/cons, other options, etc. of having a child versus just act on their biological(?) urge, versus doing it because it seems like what's expected/the social norm, etc.
I would love to hear from folks without kids on ways they would like to be invited into a relationship with their friend’s kids. I’m sure for some the answer is just that they would prefer not to form relationships with kids and that’s fair, but I’m sure there are lots of people that just don’t really know how to interact with kids and feel awkward about it.
Would getting iced coffees and hanging out at the spray park with me and my kid be fun or tedious?
What about coming over for dinner? What if it’s a bit noisy and messy and you have to show up right at 5 and leave by 6:30 at the latest? Would that be nice or just a chore?
My gut tells me that going to a kids birthday would be more obligation than fun for my friends without kids but is that true? Or is it a slight to not be invited?
What about FaceTiming a toddler?
Obviously these are questions I should just ask my friends but I’d be so interested to know what people thought!
These are great questions! I'm sure everyone is different, but my thoughts:
Would getting iced coffees and hanging out at the spray park with me and my kid be fun or tedious? I would love this! I offer to meet up with my friends at the park/wherever just to hang out. It's really nice having options to interact with the kiddo - "Yay, gonna run around with you!" - and also step back, "Okay, going to sit on this bench now!"
What about coming over for dinner? What if it’s a bit noisy and messy and you have to show up right at 5 and leave by 6:30 at the latest? Would that be nice or just a chore? Yes! This is fine! Just tell me what time to be there and what time to leave and if I can bring anything.
My gut tells me that going to a kids birthday would be more obligation than fun for my friends without kids but is that true? Or is it a slight to not be invited? This is a depends for me. When kids are little and it's like, someone's backyard or a park and mostly adults with a few kids, love that! If it's like, a true KIDS party at a trampoline park...no thank you. I wouldn't be upset to be invited, but I also wouldn't go. I also wouldn't expect to be invited.
What about FaceTiming a toddler? For like...a minute? Because I do not understand what they're saying and it's cute to see them and wave and say hi, but that's really all that's possible.
I really love doing activities with my friends and their kids - walks around the neighborhood, a museum jaunt, a zoo trip, hanging at a park, trick or treating, etc. It's a good way to interact with them around a topic, vs just like...having to play pretend with them, which is somehow both stressful and boring to me. But we can both get excited about the lions! We can talk about costumes!
A few other random thoughts: If I say your kiddo(s) welcome at my house and to bring 'em, I very much mean it! My house is probably a giant death trap, but my backyard has chickens and I've yet to meet a child who didn't LOVE them. Also, if you have the opportunity to include multiple childfree friends in a hang, it definitely helps. It both feels more inclusive, and lets the adults trade off on who is actively playing vs having some adult conversation.
Thank you so much for your thoughtful response! It absolutely would not have occurred to me to just invite more than one friend on a trip to the park/zoo/museum but that makes so much sense! And would make things easier for me to focus on my kids needs if I need to without feeling like I am ignoring my friend. Such a helpful, simple tip!
dear sophie,
i love this and i love you and thank you for sharing as always! (for the people who may be reading what i'm writing that don't already engage with sophie's work on a regular basis, WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?)
some specific nuggets that leapt out to me (or leapt INTO me, into the heart part of me):
"Human beings deserve kindness and unconditional positive regard, until they’ve individually violated trust. (And honestly, I think they deserve it even after that.)"
and
"...our mouths are better because of the teeth-brushing; and our souls are better because of the children."
beautiful concepts beautifully expressed, thank you again and always and happy january, friend!
love
myq
Thank you, and happy January back! Thank you as ever for nuggeting. It is such a gift you give.
Oh man. We need a phrase to describe when you stop what you're doing - in my case, drying my hair, an activity that takes forever - to go comment on a newsletter you just read. A "pause the pod" for the written word.
I appreciated the sentiment of the IG post at the time, though I definitely fell into the childfree irked camp. So many parents start ignoring their friends/talking only about their children and/or stop inviting their childfree friends to things because they "assume they don't want to hang out with kids." This is a hella two way street, but no one is responsible for representing both sides of everything, and I appreciated your perspective.
But let's go back to this: "It is bonkers to me that it is socially acceptable to say that you just don’t like all children."
Hooboy, the inhale I inhaled. If I had my Garmin on, I know it would've yelled at me to chill the fuck out.
I should add the necessary caveats before diving in. This weekend, I am writing letters to friends 3- and 6-year-old kiddos. I pretend they come from Maggie Modzelewski, Headmistress of the Cathedral of Learning Witchcraft and Wizardry. They are delivered by two stuffies I bought them when we toured the Cathedral of Learning together. I have holiday presents on my table for three other significant children in my life, "the boys," as I call them, the sons of two dear friends who are close to each other, close in age and luckily, close to me. I love these children.
But listen: I don't like children. I like and love and adore some individuals. I like the concept of them, the furthering of humanity, the many good things you raise. But I have never known how to hang out with them, even when I was one. (My kindergarten teacher made me a "room mother" because I was better at organizing than engaging.) I am bad at play. It drives me up a wall that I can't understand what they're saying.
There's a line in an essay I wrote about abortion where I'm remembering talking about finding out I was pregnant. "What am I going to do, have Whiskey watch the baby while I work like he’s Nana from Peter Fucking Pan? Also. I hate children."
Whiskey was my dog, and he was the only childcare I would've had available. But more importantly, it felt important to acknowledge that I am generally extremely unhappy spending more than 90 minutes with a child. A mother in my writing group commented, "You cannot mean this."
She's right. I don't hate children. But in a moment when I was deciding whether or not I wanted to have one, that's absolutely a flippant thing I would've said, and I feel zero shame about it.
Similarly, not liking children is a quick shorthand for the fact that, with individual and time-limited exceptions, I don't especially enjoy their company. I am happy to make the time and form relationships with my friends' kiddos. This, as you say, is part of life. But I cannot understand why there should be any more shame around generally not enjoying hanging around kids than not enjoying hanging around dogs. Dogs are great! They're soft and sweet and pure joy and love and light. Do I understand when someone doesn't want to hang out with my dog? No. But I'm not going to try to suggest it's bonkers, and would absolutely love it if people who dig spending time with teacup humans could extend the same courtesy.
I laughed out loud when you wrote that "It drives me up a wall that I can't understand what they're saying." I'm just picturing the amount of times I've stared at a three-year-old who has said.... something. And then I say, "Oh wow, yes, totally." When really I mean, "What the actual fuck just came out of your mouth."
Thank you for this comment, Maggie. I appreciate the nuance with which you considered my words, and I'm sorry I made you inhale so profoundly! Though I get it. I have been inhaling a lot like that lately, to plenty of well-meaning people writing about polyamory on the internet. THERE ARE SHADES OF GRAY, FOLKS! This is part of what you're saying, and you're right.
I do take issue with this: "I cannot understand why there should be any more shame around generally not enjoying hanging around kids than not enjoying hanging around dogs." Sorry, but I THINK IT IS BONKERS THAT ANYONE WOULD SAY THAT THEY DISLIKE ALL DOGS! Maybe even MORE bonkers than the kids thing!? Because, as April Ludgate puts it in Parks & Rec, "[Dogs] should be rewarded for not being people."
Boy, two comments in two posts, I feel like a bit of a jerk. However, this was the nudge I finally took as, you know, the broke whatever to ante up to paid because I truly have been meaning to. This is going to be a dumb, long comment and for that I'm sorry, however I was ruminating around the kitchen on the first bulk and your call for "change my mind in comments."
I don't think I'm going to change your mind, and honestly, that is good because people should value, protect, and care for children. That is of course true.
However, this is not the first time I have encountered I suppose what you would call "righteous" (I did not find it so) declarations from parents about their furor when they encounter "people who hate children". I liked the instragram post, for the record, and shared it with my parent-pals, even though yes, there were parts of it I found myself resistant to. I have a dear, dear, my oldest friend who seems to bring this up specifically *with me* each time we rarely see each other IRL. I say this because I probably am bringing some baggage to it. I learned once to never offer my own thoughts on it, because it hurt too much to deal with the vehemence, and it seems as though I am a stand in for the "I hate children" folks (which, to her, are queer childless people she apparently knows, and the nature of queer identity seems to agitate her even more.) I dislike this conversation, but there is an invitation here, in this space, for thoughts, so here goes.
I don't know these internet commenters and I'm not going to wade in to look at them. I do have to push back, a little though, at the notion of the Vast Hating Children conspiracy AND, also, to perhaps accept whatever "children are not for me" notions they may have.... in order to allow space for everyone to have the best outcome they can (including PROTECTING one's children).
I profess I have no idea the ins and outs over my child ambivalence, thus I am maybe speaking for some of these people who simply like to say these things because they'd like to stop being hectored about not having children or enjoying a "child-free" life, whatever the hell that is. I'm child free and I would not say I find my life exceptionally enjoyable because of that? I'm broke: there is no world in which many parts of my life would ever sustain having a child, which is part of the reason I accepted what would be my lot w/r/t to normative parenting. They are obnoxious, probably, yes. I would say I know a handful of folks who have expressed distaste for children. I don't especially engage with it because it has never really become something to engage with after someone flippantly goes, "ugh, kids."
So is expressing dislike of children the same as a "hate" for children? Whose children are we talking about here? I must admit, I find a lot of dissonance when I encounter those who condemn "hate for children" and then, on the other hand, seem at ease criticizing other children who may have maladaptive behaviors (note: I am speaking in code for when white liberal parents shittalking underserved POC children who may live in their neighborhood or share their spaces), or, to me, worse, being at best judgmental and at worst unkind about adolescents (again, I am often talking about white liberal parents dog whistling about POC youth). When we say, it is abhorrent for someone to express "hating children" (again, I have not encountered "I Hate Children", but more of complaining about them), I want to know whose children are we talking about? I have the utmost respect for all the work you have done with youth and so to be clear, I am one hundred percent not talking about you, Sophie. Perhaps you have encountered some of the people I am talking about, though.
To run with that, can we be sure those who like to be snide/edgy/whatever about their aversion to children "hate children"? If we are doing the work of liberation for the most vulnerable, say, we are trying to support mutual aid food access networks in our neighborhood (knowing children are the ones who go hungry), or better pedestrian infrastructure because we know children and the elderly are in actuality the most vulnerable users of the road and those killed, or if we are trying to provide money to do anything in the face of Palestinian genocide (knowing that at one time HALF of Gaza was comprised of *literal children*), one might argue we are trying to love and protect children. To follow that thread, perhaps the people in our lives upholding Zionism or refusing to condemn ethnic cleansing actually hate children. I cannot say.
I suppose I just dislike this rhetoric because it leaves no room for ambiguity. To be certain: the phrase "I Hate Children" is pretty unambiguous, and obnoxious. Yet maybe there is something to letting that go and also.... taking it at face value. I think there are many people in this world who are not sociopaths or genuinely evil, however I KNOW there are people in this world who for whatever reason are perhaps not the best people to be around children. Hell, people who are prickly, unkind, blunt, etc. are not really enjoyable to be around as adults! And there may be MANY reasons people have aversion to children, especially, and I urge you gently to consider this: the fact that they absolutely DID NOT HAVE healthy, good, loving childhoods, and would like to stay as far away from "childhood" as they can. Is that something to condemn? I am well aware some of my strange feelings about friends with kids comes from that. I am uninterested in exploring this in a comments section, etc., but I can say with one hundred percent certainty: one of my parents has expressed and objectively was Not Meant For Small Children. At best, as an adult, I can see this person has mellowed and also DOES care for children (i.e. provides migrant services, donates money, does The Work). And at worst, I am well aware my childhood was neglectful and there are many moments I desperately wished that parent was not the one to care for me, because of the harm it caused. I was lucky: there were People In My Life who cared for children, but most of them were not Adults I Knew until I was a teenager (and honestly, that was probably better!) Most of these people were also underpaid, and often POC. They were caretakers.
There are many reasons people may bristle or dislike children, and I would maybe argue that some of them dislike being around children... when their parents are around. I could name myriad reasons for this: cultural differences that I believe need not be upheld nor denigrated, something that triggers them based on their past, or simply because quite honestly, some parents are exhausting to be around. I generally enjoy kids a lot more on their own. AND ALSO: I will never, ever, even if asked at knifepoint give or share "advice" or thoughts about parenting with a parent. Never. I don't have them (children), I would not know how to reflect some of the types of parenting I see now, etc. and frankly the proliferation of social media and "takes" on parenting, especially in what I view as white, progressive circles seems to do a lot of damage to my parent friends! It is awful to watch.
I suppose maybe it is just better for parents of SPECIFIC children to maybe just not have them be around people who share out loud their distaste for children. I do not think these people are monsters, just like I found myself deeply saddened by your statement on polyamorous folks saying it is "Exactly Like Having Children." Large statements about rejecting heteronormative structures of relationships has been why I stopped trying to identify as Polyamorous, and it is intensely lonely to be non-monogamous and want to get needs or desires met when folks under the Poly umbrella dictate their needs (i.e. accepting a polycule when frankly, I really am at capacity and I'm going to take time to get to know ANYONE) and any of the work I have done to meet in the middle is moot. I know you probably did not mean it that way, and I really loved your poly memoir, and enjoy much of your writing on it. Still, that was a lot to take in.
Perhaps it is simply better to leave the people who dislike children away from your "small children" which I think is what these people are talking about. I don't know. I can tell you I love working with adolescents and teenagers - I'm better at it, and have received somewhat pointed feedback in that I am not able to "do small children" as well, which hurts. I think adolescents and teenagers deserve love and care from adults too, and I'm not sure where that fits in here, other than I often find myself wanting to ask my friend, "Is it not enough for those of us doing SOME of this work for young people? What is enough?"
Finally, I just want to say: sometimes some of this comes down to what I DO believe should be the delineation between spaces. If I am in a dark bar at 8 PM trying to read a book, where there is no food that would remotely be enjoyable to a small child, I am going to bristle when a parent lets their six year old climb up onto a barstool to get a bartender's attention. I do not hate the children. I am WILDLY judgmental of those parents, though. Who the hell would want to be a kid at a fucking bar? God knows I'd rather be in bed or having someone read a book to me.
Anyway, this has been disjointed, but I felt obligated, and would like to close with: I appreciate your writing so much and these thoughts, and here is what I have to say. Also people on the internet are the worst and perhaps it would be best if we left them be. Probably I will not be responding to a massive comment thread, but happy to take offline. Saludos.
CARMEN! This is just such an amazing and thoughtful comment, full of exactly the nuance that I was hoping to read. I'm so impressed with the way you're thinking about this, the care you're taking, and the thought you've put into this gorgeous response. What a gift it is. This in particular is so valuable and should have been in my initial post:
"So is expressing dislike of children the same as a "hate" for children? Whose children are we talking about here? I must admit, I find a lot of dissonance when I encounter those who condemn "hate for children" and then, on the other hand, seem at ease criticizing other children who may have maladaptive behaviors (note: I am speaking in code for when white liberal parents shittalking underserved POC children who may live in their neighborhood or share their spaces), or, to me, worse, being at best judgmental and at worst unkind about adolescents (again, I am often talking about white liberal parents dog whistling about POC youth). When we say, it is abhorrent for someone to express "hating children" (again, I have not encountered "I Hate Children", but more of complaining about them), I want to know whose children are we talking about?"
This REALLY matters and feels like it's so often left out of the discussion. Mia Birdsong recently posted on Instagram a poem that began the lines "I No Longer Care If You're Good/ to your children. Show me / how you care / for other people's children." (The post is by Fara Tucker.) I thought that was such an interesting sentiment.
Thank you so much for all your thoughts here, and how you help to delineate these ideas. I feel really grateful for you and what you've added to this conversation. Thank you.
I don’t really care if you like kids or not but I do wish more people considered how actively dehumanizing public statements of hating children are considering how utterly helpless kids are.
Right.
Thanks for all of the nuance as always.
But I am MAD. I wanted to know what type of rice cooker you got as a member of Team Zojirushi ;)
i am also hardcore team zojirushi ✨✨✨
My friends: Zojirushi. That is the rice cooker. And I really love it. I love it. I do.
This is an important topic that I agree with wholeheartedly. Thank you for writing about it!
There’s people who love kids, people who hate kids ... and people in between. I’m one of those in between people. Your insta post encouraged me to explore a concept I hadn’t thought of before.. that if I’m not totally averse to it, I should consider spending more time with my friend’s kids! I kinda didn’t know that was a thing.
Now, some people are very adamant about having their dislike of children heard. I have a few friends like that. I have ALWAYS felt awkward around kids, so I get not knowing what to do/say, but I bristle when witnessing how explosive some people can be about hating children. It feels like punching down, and more to do with that particular person than children in general.
There’s an angle in pedophobia (disdain/dislike/hatred/fear of children) that says something about our culture’s shadow. We are all children. So are we hating on ourselves?
Very interesting thoughts, here. I have never heard the word "pedophobia," but it's super interesting. Thanks for educating me!
I enjoyed hearing about the Slutty Baby Philosophy - and the way you laid out all of the perks makes it sound very attractive. But I also want to validate your (and anyone else who behaves like this) approach of following your own intuition on when to have other people hold the baby versus you. Even if it is "better" in the long-run, it's also important that you feel good and safe about who's holding your baby/when, and when you have a new baby it's not an easy time to be living a set philosophy that might not come naturally to you versus acting on instinct. So I think it's a great approach if it feels good, but I did usually crave the connection with my babies that comes from soothing them when they were upset (not always though!). I definitely missed having other people hold a baby for me when I had that one during the pandemic and nobody was touching each other. That was rough.
The concept about people hating/not liking kids is interesting to me too. I literally never hear people say that... I hear people say they get overwhelmed with them, or don't know how to interact with them. But I also don't meet tons of new people regularly or write a newsletter inviting that, so maybe I'd find more people that didn't like kids if I did.
But I think it kind of doesn't matter if some people hate kids (as long as they're not acting on this hate beyond trying to avoid them). There's lots of different kinds of people in this world that like a lot of different things. But that doesn't mean we don't sometimes interact with or deal with the things/people that aren't our favorite. And if all of a sudden they're a non-negotiable add-on to a good friend, it's usually very possible to find ways to still spend time with the friend without the add-on (whether that's a hobby, lifestyle, spouse/partner, or a kid). I like kids just fine, but still work hard to find time with my friends (who also have kids) without any of our kids there - because when we all hang out with kids (which we also do), it's not usually much like hanging out with my friends at all. It's like being near my friends while we all make sure our kids don't accidentally kill themselves (kids are always doing this and it's very stressful and it's reasons like this why I understand that some people just don't want to be near all that!).
And so I don't see what got people so riled up with your post (other than people love getting mad on the internet) - you offered some good options for hanging out without kids, so as long as it's not interpreted as a demand that people do all of the options, it seems pretty benign. I would also add maybe for friends without kids to have friends with kids over for an evening thing, so the no-kids friend doesn't have to go anywhere. Because maybe the list felt just a tiny bit too focused on accommodating people with kids, although I realize the goal was just to make spending time together as feasible as possible. And some of that might also depend on the age of kids - when my kids were under 2, I was much more tired and going somewhere usually sounded absurd. But now I'm not *as* tired and if we do hang out at my house in the evening, there's a high probability that my kids are going to try to crash the party and ultimately go to bed super late, so maybe I should just go to my childless friends' house anyway and have a nice peaceful evening and celebrate their home and life path with them.
I always appreciate your thoughts on this stuff (and all stuff), Colleen. Thank you for offering this up to the general public! I love this especially: "There's lots of different kinds of people in this world that like a lot of different things. But that doesn't mean we don't sometimes interact with or deal with the things/people that aren't our favorite."
Oh boy, it is so interesting reading everyone’s thoughts this! I really appreciate both the original Instagram post And this newsletter about it And people’s responses to this newsletter! Here are some of my loose thoughts in no particular order:
It’s a shame that Instagram comments are so often finding the least generous interpretation of what someone is saying and then arguing from there. It feels like some sort of constructive debate exercise could baked into the app to combat this but that’s not really what social media is about.
I really feel like if our society in general was less emphatic about the nuclear family and having kids in general people would be less vehement about not liking kids. It strikes me that this is a sentiment I’ve heard almost entirely from women and I think it’s often in reaction to a presumption that they should love children and be instantly good with them. I hope as a society we are slowly getting better about planning women under this type of pressure.
I pride myself as being a good friend and had a partner who made it a priority for me to get baby-free time with my friends. Even so, The first year of my (now 1.5 year old) baby’s life when my friends and I got together was not good. My brain just felt like empty static. I didn’t want to be a cliché who only could talk about their kid but I didn’t have any anecdotes or jokes or ideas, I hadn’t listened to and music or seen any films. It was a very isolating combination of depression, anxiety and obliteration of identity and even though now I feel so much more myself I still would never be able to explain that feeling to my group of friends without kids. I was just showing up those 4 or 5 times to be a placeholder to maintain those friendships for a future self. But it felt as bad as it did good some of the time. That is in no way the fault of my friends, it’s just a hard true thing.
One thing I would recommend most of all for friendships regardless of child status is to live in proximity. It is such a game changer to just be living lives physically close by. One friend would ride her bike right past my house frequently and I would see her while taking by baby out for a walk in the awful early evening panic hour. Her just stopping to chat for 5 minutes or share a slice of watermelon on the stoop would absolutely make my day. Make your neighbours your friends, yes. But if you can make your friends your neighbours it will enrich your life infinitely.
WOW, this is just a treasure trove of amazing thoughts. I relate so strongly to your experience of the first 1.5 years of your kid's life (I was like, "Wait... did I write this?!"), and I love the line "to be a placeholder to maintain those friendships for a future self." Beautiful, sad, true. Well put.
I'm pulling this whole graph out because I hadn't thought about this with such clarity, and I love the way you put this: "I really feel like if our society in general was less emphatic about the nuclear family and having kids in general people would be less vehement about not liking kids. It strikes me that this is a sentiment I’ve heard almost entirely from women and I think it’s often in reaction to a presumption that they should love children and be instantly good with them. I hope as a society we are slowly getting better about planning women under this type of pressure."
THANK YOU SO MUCH for this. It made a difference in my life.
I've sent you a rambling email about my relationship anarchist way of life and forgot to include this link, promoting a polyam romance book published by a Toronto author by Harlequin: https://www.tiktok.com/@markusbones/video/7320616552364068102?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7321730473615672838
I essentially stopped parenting my child due to estrangement when he was 12 1/2 and it made me realize how much of my life was centered around my kid, around being a parent. (I'm quoted in a book about middle-age regarding this topic if anyone wants the title.) I occasionally share with my kid what i'm up to and he is envious of my adventures, but I wouldn't be having these adventures if he was still living with me. I think I might have chosen child-free life, or approached parenting with more intentional, if I hadn't been socialized to WANT motherhood, to be told that it's this divine experience, only to be totally beat down by it. Highly suggest Why Have Kids by Jessica Valenti
THANK YOU for your rambling email, which I wish everyone had read. Thank you , too, for the recommendations! These are on my list.
This is a very timely newsletter! I was just ranting about a friend of mine who wants to have a kid with a new partner and what a horrible idea I think it is.
First I will say I’m so glad to hear you talk about this! This comic softened me a little bit when I first read it but I was also filled with thoughts and feelings.
I am also not anti-child. They’re not really my thing, but I make exceptions for smiling at them on public transit and of course for the children of my friends. A lot of anti-children (not all) were probably disliked as a child. I fall into that camp; I was loved when I was sweet and quiet and wore cute hats and treated repulsively when I was y’know…. a “kid”.
I think people should put more thought into having kids. I don’t think “Because it could be a fulfilling thing for me” is a good enough reason. I think if we practiced community and collective living/different kinds of family structures, more people would be able to experience family, connection, support and community and might not even want to have kids as much? Or at least, not for the sake of trying to heal themselves.
That’s sort of a tangent and not totally what you’re writing about. But I think it’s connected at least.
It reminds me of how many children are suffering in the foster care system. I realize adopting is actually incredibly inaccessible— but I find it suspicious that people who are unable to have their own children would rather spend hundreds to thousands on having one biologically rather than even just… become a foster parent themselves? If it was a life with a child in it that they wanted… there are many of them already on this earth who will grow up neglected and abused. If it’s the biological urge to reproduce, then again I think we are at the point where we should be considering that very seriously before having a kid.
It reminds me of how in developing countries struggling with over population, the best way to curb that issue is to ensure women and girls have access to education. Over here the problem I think is more fostering meaningful connections and communities.
But also…. emotional education, mental health care. It would work well for everyone— people who want kids, people who don’t, people who can’t.
I realize that’s probably never going to happen though and I think in some ways it’s because it’s… simpler… to have your own tiny nuclear family and try and get your needs met within that ancient structure and that is what irks me most of all because it is so obviously failing us as a society.
I really liked this thoughtful comment and found it very insightful.
Really appreciate this perspective; you've put a lot of what I've thought about these kinds of things into words.
Thanks, Rowan. It's always a joy to hear from you.
And I agree!
Wow. What an amazing comment. Thank you so much for it. This especially: "I think people should put more thought into having kids. I don’t think “Because it could be a fulfilling thing for me” is a good enough reason. I think if we practiced community and collective living/different kinds of family structures, more people would be able to experience family, connection, support and community and might not even want to have kids as much? Or at least, not for the sake of trying to heal themselves." I feel like I might want to quote you on this in my book, and I couldn't agree with you more about it. You've put amazing words to some difficult topics! Thank you, thank you.
"I think people should put more thought into having kids."
^This made me laugh (at myself) because I realized that I put literally zero thoughts into having kids for my entire life until I was like 27 and then my body/brain was like HAVE A BABY RIGHT THIS SECOND!! The same thing happened when I was like 20, but that time it was puppies.
I didn't really even like kids that much - I definitely didn't dislike them. I remember my mom talking about having kids, saying, "I just felt like life was going to be pretty boring if it was just about me all the time." When I asked if she liked kids, she said, "I liked *my* kids."
Anyway, these are just random thoughts that came up reading your comment, and probably prove your point more than anything else. But interesting for me to reflect on the concept of putting more thought into having kids. I put very little thought into things ahead of time, I think they just build up in my subconscious or something, and then all of a sudden I make (seemingly) impulsive decisions. Like have a baby. Makes me curious what the breakdown is of people who thoughtfully weigh pros/cons, other options, etc. of having a child versus just act on their biological(?) urge, versus doing it because it seems like what's expected/the social norm, etc.
I would love to hear from folks without kids on ways they would like to be invited into a relationship with their friend’s kids. I’m sure for some the answer is just that they would prefer not to form relationships with kids and that’s fair, but I’m sure there are lots of people that just don’t really know how to interact with kids and feel awkward about it.
Would getting iced coffees and hanging out at the spray park with me and my kid be fun or tedious?
What about coming over for dinner? What if it’s a bit noisy and messy and you have to show up right at 5 and leave by 6:30 at the latest? Would that be nice or just a chore?
My gut tells me that going to a kids birthday would be more obligation than fun for my friends without kids but is that true? Or is it a slight to not be invited?
What about FaceTiming a toddler?
Obviously these are questions I should just ask my friends but I’d be so interested to know what people thought!
These are great questions! I'm sure everyone is different, but my thoughts:
Would getting iced coffees and hanging out at the spray park with me and my kid be fun or tedious? I would love this! I offer to meet up with my friends at the park/wherever just to hang out. It's really nice having options to interact with the kiddo - "Yay, gonna run around with you!" - and also step back, "Okay, going to sit on this bench now!"
What about coming over for dinner? What if it’s a bit noisy and messy and you have to show up right at 5 and leave by 6:30 at the latest? Would that be nice or just a chore? Yes! This is fine! Just tell me what time to be there and what time to leave and if I can bring anything.
My gut tells me that going to a kids birthday would be more obligation than fun for my friends without kids but is that true? Or is it a slight to not be invited? This is a depends for me. When kids are little and it's like, someone's backyard or a park and mostly adults with a few kids, love that! If it's like, a true KIDS party at a trampoline park...no thank you. I wouldn't be upset to be invited, but I also wouldn't go. I also wouldn't expect to be invited.
What about FaceTiming a toddler? For like...a minute? Because I do not understand what they're saying and it's cute to see them and wave and say hi, but that's really all that's possible.
I really love doing activities with my friends and their kids - walks around the neighborhood, a museum jaunt, a zoo trip, hanging at a park, trick or treating, etc. It's a good way to interact with them around a topic, vs just like...having to play pretend with them, which is somehow both stressful and boring to me. But we can both get excited about the lions! We can talk about costumes!
A few other random thoughts: If I say your kiddo(s) welcome at my house and to bring 'em, I very much mean it! My house is probably a giant death trap, but my backyard has chickens and I've yet to meet a child who didn't LOVE them. Also, if you have the opportunity to include multiple childfree friends in a hang, it definitely helps. It both feels more inclusive, and lets the adults trade off on who is actively playing vs having some adult conversation.
Thank you so much for your thoughtful response! It absolutely would not have occurred to me to just invite more than one friend on a trip to the park/zoo/museum but that makes so much sense! And would make things easier for me to focus on my kids needs if I need to without feeling like I am ignoring my friend. Such a helpful, simple tip!
... and I love that you answered this with such genuine thought and attention. You have (both) modeled something beautiful here. Thank you so much.
HOORAY for COMMUNICATING! I just love these questions. Let's get them printed out and put them in the hands of our friends!